When I Swing by setting my Bent Right Wrist at my shoulder and Pivot covering the ball with my shoulder (Tracing the Angle), I feel as if I am doing one long Finish Swivel but when I set my hands back and level and parallel bump (Tracing the Plane), it feels like a very dramatic quick Finish Swivel. I think this makes sense!
Yes. very dramatic quick Finish Swivel = Horizontal Hinge
And here is a video of 90 degree fever from the Masters with lots of different players!
These Videos are excellent examples. They show each Player with some sort of Shoulder Take-away, and yet they ALL acquire the 90 degree Wedge Alignment at the end of their Backstrokes. Each of them sustains that Alignment through Impact. All of them are Horizontal Hinging. Not a single one of them uses a coordinated Downstroke Acceleration Sequence. All of them are using every muscle fiber to accelerate the clubhead. That flipping at Impact is their way of reducing the "Approach/Separation" speed of the Clubhead because they don't sustain the Lag. It just goes to show how Awesome these players have developed their skills.
As a side note: only a few of them are using an "Automatic Release". Most are using "Non-Automatic". Look at Sergio, Automatic. So,,,I guess that Release Type is simply Optional.
Daryl, I thought a dramatic Finish Swivel indicated always a Horizontal HingeYESand the Angle Hinge was more subtleYESbut I see how I could be totally wrong about that. More research needed!
Maybe I was confused about what you were saying. I though you were adding "Layback" and that you thought that was HH.
When I Swing by setting my Bent Right Wrist at my shoulder and Pivot covering the ball with my shoulder (Tracing the Angle), I feel as if I am doing one long Finish Swivel but when I set my hands back and level and parallel bump (Tracing the Plane), it feels like a very dramatic quick Finish Swivel. I think this makes sense!
Yes. very dramatic quick Finish Swivel = Horizontal Hinge
And here is a video of 90 degree fever from the Masters with lots of different players!
These Videos are excellent examples. They show each Player with some sort of Shoulder Take-away, and yet they ALL acquire the 90 degree Wedge Alignment at the end of their Backstrokes. Each of them sustains that Alignment through Impact. All of them are Horizontal Hinging. Not a single one of them uses a coordinated Downstroke Acceleration Sequence. All of them are using every muscle fiber to accelerate the clubhead. That flipping at Impact is their way of reducing the "Approach/Separation" speed of the Clubhead because they don't sustain the Lag. It just goes to show how Awesome these players have developed their skills.
As a side note: only a few of them are using an "Automatic Release". Most are using "Non-Automatic". Look at Sergio, Automatic. So,,,I guess that Release Type is simply Optional.
Daryl, I thought a dramatic Finish Swivel indicated always a Horizontal HingeYESand the Angle Hinge was more subtleYESbut I see how I could be totally wrong about that. More research needed!
Maybe I was confused about what you were saying. I though you were adding "Layback" and that you thought that was HH.
Yes sir I am! I am always adding "lay-back" to the shoulder covering and dramatic Finish Swivel.
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Yes sir I am! I am always adding "lay-back" to the shoulder covering and dramatic Finish Swivel.
ICT
It took me 9 holes to get comfortable tracing the Plane line keeping my right wrist up and the takeaway felt so horizontal! 50 degrees outside and I was as far off the tee as I am each Spring and dead in the middle of the fairway.
Ball position for irons was off or my Pivot was so smooth for my driver the ball was always on line but short. Shot a 44 but it was very easy, meaning I missed 6 putts from 15 in feet for par since my chips weren't sharp. Also, I didn't keep a stable head through impact as the ball was not in the right position.
Slid my ball position back on the next 9, covered with my shoulder trusting the Horizontal Hinge and stayed down and through and gained distance and accuracy on drives and irons for a 41. ( I actually imagined my shoulder carrying my Bent Right Wrist down and through the shot.) 4 long birdie attempts > than 25 feet but no joy and 3 birdie attempts within 10 feet but uhmm, I gave up hitting a fade and either hit a straight shot or a baby draw.
I did hit two 3 woods fades from an open stance that worked very well cutting across the back of the ball inside the front shoulder.
Still, it was the easiest 85 I can remember. As I started to trust my Horizontal Hinge, I started to trust my Pivot and really hit through the ball. I wanted to play another 18 but a storm front was coming through. Very exciting!
And my 8 degree driver flew as high as I needed it to!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
We have a pond 200 yards down the left on mirror holes on 8 and 9 with narrow openings and large trees on the right. Today for the first time ever I played a draw or Horizontal Hinge on both, parred both and had birdie putts on both. Ball must be or feel very back in my stance.
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
We have a pond 200 yards down the left on mirror holes on 8 and 9 with narrow openings and large trees on the right. Today for the first time ever I played a draw or Horizontal Hinge on both, parred both and had birdie putts on both. Ball must be or feel very back in my stance.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,632
A Place To Put It
brianmanzella wrote:
Now what about the FOOLish ideas of the BEST THREE IRON PLAYERS that ever walked the EARTH, Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus and Johnny Miller...they all used (in their primes) one forward ball position.
Tonight I received a PM about the Ball location 'problem.' Namely, the fact that some authorities recommend one location (up front) and others, notably one Homer Kelley, recommend moving the Ball progressively farther back as Shaft length decreases (6-E-2). My reply reminded me that I had not yet responded to Brian's post. There are many things that deserve comment, but first the main course, dessert later!
That's a joke, Brian!
Anyway...
Read 6-E-2 and the Fog will lift, or at least it will get you out of the 'pea soup' variety. The ball must be moved back for the shorter clubs.Otherwise, you will struggle constantly for consistency (because the Ball ain't where it's supposed to be).
The 'one position' location -- near or just off the Left Heel -- has long been recommended by many fine teachers, including Jack Grout, who gave Jack Nicklaus his first lesson at the age of ten. And the fact that Jack subsequently became The Greatest Player In The History Of The Game did not diminish the popularity of the recommendation.
In fact, it affected -- infected would be a better word -- an entire generation of golfers, including the above Quote-referenced Mr. Miller. But it didn't influence Hogan. No sir. He had the information way ahead of time, and in 1957, with Jackie Nicklaus just out of knee pants, he published it in his book, Five Lessons.
Now, it truly would be wonderful if that one forward location would be forever and always the best place to put the Ball. Sadly, it is not. And per 6-E-2, it is not going to be -- no matter how many great players recommend it or how many miracle clubs are brought to market or how exaggerated their manufacturers' claims. It just ain't gonna happen. Unless, of course, they start making all clubs the same length! Then, with the Sweet Spot properly located on the face of each club, maybe so! Of course, we might experience some distance control problems. You know, 200-yard sand wedges, that kind of thing.
But I digress. Back to Messrs. Nicklaus, Miller, and Hogan...
First, recall that Jack Nicklaus, in his day, was known as the longest and straightest driver in history. He played the Ball off his Left Heel. At the same time, he was also known as one of the worst wedge players on Tour.He played the Ball off his Left Heel.
Second, both Jack Nicklaus and his emulator, Johnny "It's always better when you beat Jack" Miller, had tremendous 'leg drive.' Good players know that you can move the Ball around a lot in the stance and still hit a perfect Shot. And they do that by where they direct their Thrust through Impact. In The Golfing Machine that is called the Aiming Point, and it is explained in 6-E-2.
So, the good player can artificially adjust his Aiming Point to compensate for an otherwise deficient Ball Location, and that is exactly what these two gentlemen did. But not without effort! Have you ever watched Jack's leg drive?I mean, in person? Feel the swoosh? How about Johnny's? Now "That's a spicy meatball!"
Anyway, there's no question that from that forward Ball location, both men produced a lot of very good golf shots "in their prime."Interestingly though, as time went on, they discovered to their amazement that they hit even more very good golf shots -- and less very bad ones --by moving the Ball back as the Clubs got shorter.
In fact, both Jack and Johnny wrote books -- maybe not as spring chickens but still playing well enough to sell a lot of books -- and in those books they did the ultimate mea culpa. They both said they were wrong to have played the Ball so far forward with their irons all those years. And that now they had corrected that mistake and were playing the Ball farther back. Nicklaus was happy to report that his wedge play had improved markedly. Go figure!But...Oh, say it ain't so, Joe! But say it they did, and they hung it out in print for all to read.
Finally, what of the Wee Ice Mon, Bantam Ben Hogan? And what about what he said in that book of his? Somebody asked one of his favorite playing partners, Jay Hebert, that same question just after the book came out. Here's what Jay had to say:
"I've played hundreds of rounds with the guy, and I can tell you that he plays almost every iron shot in front of or just behind the middle of his stance."
Oh me.
__________________
Yoda
And hybrids too, imho!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,632
Getting A Fix On Fix
Originally Posted by 8cork
I guess I still have some fog about the positon the body is in at impact fix. Should I have some hip slide in order to get my hands to be more mid body, or should I just have my hands forward (over left foot) and hips be more square?
Except for special situations, the Body at Fix (and, hence, at Impact) is in a 'comparatively squared away' position (10-8-A). That means that the Hip Turn is slightly leading the On Plane Right Shoulder and that the Weight is slightly left. Your Stationary Head has remained between your Feet and your spine has retained its Forward Lean (Snead to Eisenhower: "Butt out, Mr. President."). This last item is essential to proper Right Forearm Plane Line Tracing through Impact.
__________________
Yoda
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
It took me 9 holes to get comfortable tracing the Plane line keeping my right wrist up and the takeaway felt so horizontal! 50 degrees outside and I was as far off the tee as I am each Spring and dead in the middle of the fairway.
ICT
Why?? You should be good from the start. Something is wrong.
Well there ya go. That's a problem. Hands can't reach Impact Location so ya play the Ball Back. It's not Old man syndrome at your age. It must be Lazy Pivot Syndrome. Or. Your Elbow is getting stuck at your right side, you're losing hand acceleration (which also by the way, allows your hands to get to the ball).
OMG. Playing the Ball in the Middle of your stance is so wrong in so many ways.
DRILL to correct this problem:
The Right Shoulder is part of the Pivot and is also part of the Power Package. It's the Slowest Moving Part of the Power Package. Hand Acceleration (delivery path) allows the Hands to move a little farther away from the Right Shoulder and Clubhead Acceleration (pulley) allows the hands to Move all of the way in-line with the Left Shoulder (very far from the right shoulder).
Tee a Ball 6 inches forward of your Left Foot.
Put your feet together (moves low-point forward)
Swing
Hit the Ball
Learn to move that right elbow, then hands to move the Clubhead.
Your Hands at Impact, should also be 6 inches forward of the Left Foot.
If your body is in the way.........if you eat too much........put your feet together, then place your right foot 6 inches back of your left foot. This is called (new terminology) "Clearing the Waist".
I gave up hitting a fade and either hit a straight shot or a baby draw.
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