Steeper plane (say 60*5 iron) = less out = less plane line rotation left to zero out path and face (if the ball is not a T)Flatter plane = more out therefore more plane line rotation to zero out the path and face.
Steeper plane (say 60*5 iron) = less out = less plane line rotation left to zero out path and face (if the ball is not a T)Flatter plane = more out therefore more plane line rotation to zero out the path and face.
Interesting Okie. Are you assuming the clubface is square to the Arc of Approach or true path before you rotate the plane?
Here's a Trackman diagram........all looks kinda familiar except some of their terminology is even weirder than ours. Something I previously thought to be impossible. Im with Homer on this name game......"Plane Angle" is a far better handle than Vertical Swing Plane. Maybe Im missing something however.
Yes. All of this is of course for the purpose of "zeroing out" any divergence between the path and the face, or hitting it straight (also assuming an accurate strike) It also helps explain my method of hitting straight shots, namely trying to hit a fade! To me it is a matter of learning how to hit it straight and then learn to aim it. To me the inside out cut shot achieves the same result. Took a beginner, taught him how to hit a little punch shot that initially was a push-slice. We worked on the club face angle (mainly by matching it up with the clubhead path. first push-fades, then finally just pushes. Next we just started to rotate everything to the left until the ball was on target. He had 3 polies over the course of 30 or so shots. I was disgusted! The face still gets away from him, and we are now moving the ball closer to low point and shallowing out his angle of attack as well as the path...which typical means less adjustment in terms of reorienting the plane line. I don't use the ever popular instruction of swinging left, I just trace the right plane line.
About the vertical/horizontal swing plane terminology. I agree that knowing what an elbow plane vs a turned shoulder plane is far more user friendly but Trackman measures these planes to the degree. Not because it is an earth shattering revelation to a player that their vertical swing plane with the driver is 45*, but because that number has a lot to do with the result of the shot. Wonder hogan looks like he was going to bruise his ribcage on the following through by the degree he ripped it left! Flatter swing plane (as I already mentioned) has more of an out nature, so to have the ball start on line he rotated his stuff left (even with a closed stance)Nicklaus on the hand was into bruising his chin on the backswing and hardly seems to be making any plane line adjustments (less out.)I do not know that the take on the d-plane is over here (I was on sabbatical!) but it squares up!
Last edited by okie : 11-19-2010 at 12:38 AM.
Reason: blah blah
Yes. All of this is of course for the purpose of "zeroing out" any divergence between the path and the face, or hitting it straight (also assuming an accurate strike) It also helps explain my method of hitting straight shots, namely trying to hit a fade! To me it is a matter of learning how to hit it straight and then learn to aim it. To me the inside out cut shot achieves the same result. Took a beginner, taught him how to hit a little punch shot that initially was a push-slice. We worked on the club face angle (mainly by matching it up with the clubhead path. first push-fades, then finally just pushes. Next we just started to rotate everything to the left until the ball was on target. He had 3 polies over the course of 30 or so shots. I was disgusted! The face still gets away from him, and we are now moving the ball closer to low point and shallowing out his angle of attack as well as the path...which typical means less adjustment in terms of reorienting the plane line. I don't use the ever popular instruction of swinging left, I just trace the right plane line.
About the vertical/horizontal swing plane terminology. I agree that knowing what an elbow plane vs a turned shoulder plane is far more user friendly but Trackman measures these planes to the degree. Not because it is an earth shattering revelation to a player that their vertical swing plane with the driver is 45*, but because that number has a lot to do with the result of the shot. Wonder hogan looks like he was going to bruise his ribcage on the following through by the degree he ripped it left! Flatter swing plane (as I already mentioned) has more of an out nature, so to have the ball start on line he rotated his stuff left (even with a closed stance)Nicklaus on the hand was into bruising his chin on the backswing and hardly seems to be making any plane line adjustments (less out.)I do not know that the take on the d-plane is over here (I was on sabbatical!) but it squares up!
Welcome back OKIE. We missed ya!
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
I do not know that the take on the d-plane is over here (I was on sabbatical!) but it squares up!
Hmm?
Some members like it, some don't. When I hear the term D-Plane, I reach for the Xanax. I haven't given the subject very much thought but, as always, I'm opinionated.
D-Plane replaces Plane Line with the Target Line and Low-Point with Ball Location. It "Terms" the "Lack of Clubshaft Control" the Vertical Swing Plane, and the "Lack of Clubface Control" the Horizontal Swing Plane.
Rather than learning how to strike a ball so it responds to an Angular Force as it would a Linear Force (Hinging), or Learning Pressure Points to use mechanical advantage, the D Plane promises players to "come as you are" and compensate. It's Corporate Golf Outing mentality. It lacks only the "Bumpers" running down both sides of the Fairway to make it the official teaching sponsor at McDonald's Corporate Golf Outings.
D-Plane is "Compensation Golf". Aim Right, Swing Left, Swing Right, Aim Left and further adjust for Up-hill, down-hill and Side-hill lies. You need to adjust 3 compensations before you choose a club. With D-Plane, you need 15 clubs in the bag. The 15th, is a combination "Angle Finder - Ball Position Locator".
Anyway, it's just my opinion. I think players turn to TGM because they want solutions, not compensations. Players turn to D-Plane because they want to hit the Ball, and turn to TGM when they want to learn to hit it effectively.
Rather than learning how to strike a ball so it responds to an Angular Force as it would a Linear Force (Hinging), or Learning Pressure Points to use mechanical advantage, the D Plane promises players to "come as you are" and compensate. It's Corporate Golf Outing mentality. It lacks only the "Bumpers" running down both sides of the Fairway to make it the official teaching sponsor at McDonald's Corporate Golf Outings.
D-Plane is "Compensation Golf". Aim Right, Swing Left, Swing Right, Aim Left and further adjust for Up-hill, down-hill and Side-hill lies. You need to adjust 3 compensations before you choose a club. (End of quote)
Go ahead, young man, let it out!!!!! Just remember, we oppose bad ideas, not people (unless of course they are just total idiots-don't get me started). We advocate clear, careful (lighthearted in my case) thoughts. We build lasting, reasonable solutions.
Any device which can help us, can help us, since our goal is to improve. We are not "in it to win it." We are in it to improve it, imho.
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Go ahead, young man, let it out!!!!! Just remember, we oppose bad ideas, not people (unless of course they are just total idiots-don't get me started). We advocate clear, careful (lighthearted in my case) thoughts. We build lasting, reasonable solutions.
Any device which can help us, can help us, since our goal is to improve. We are not "in it to win it." We are in it to improve it, imho.
ICT
uh oh..... did that sound like a rant? I'm not angry or anything. I was laughing while writing it. Man, I've got a problem communicating.
Interesting Okie. Are you assuming the clubface is square to the Arc of Approach or true path before you rotate the plane?
Here's a Trackman diagram........all looks kinda familiar except some of their terminology is even weirder than ours. Something I previously thought to be impossible. Im with Homer on this name game......"Plane Angle" is a far better handle than Vertical Swing Plane. Maybe Im missing something however.
OB, the assumptions built into this depiction are everything. This makes me admire Moe Norman even more, which I did not think possible. Let's say that the Trackman is spot on in it's analysis. That is sort of a gratuitous achievement, isn't it?
The real issue is effectively putting the ball into the hole. To do so, a person must master themselves over time and to some extent, master time and it's effects. THAT IS A MUCH BIGGER DEAL!!
Ask yourself another question, how much straighter can a directional line be drawn and painted on my putter or driver? Let's say it's perfectly straight. So what? I'm quite crooked in a number of ways, lmao.
A basketball is perfectly round (almost). But there was only one M. Jordan.
And Tiger can use or not use any healing technique or spiritual "balance" he can find, and he's still not probably ever going to be who he was. So what?! Lace 'em up and grab those sticks, men! And don't forget to enjoy the scenery!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 11-19-2010 at 05:20 PM.
No, I have a rant. It's Friday and not 60 degrees!
Originally Posted by Daryl
uh oh..... did that sound like a rant? I'm not angry or anything. I was laughing while writing it. Man, I've got a problem communicating.
But it'll be 57 domani!
No, Daryl, I'm just chiming in and blowing off my own steam, which I did in the proceeding post.
Leaving school so "see ya later."
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
To me it is a matter of learning how to hit it straight and then learn to aim it. To me the inside out cut shot achieves the same result. Took a beginner, taught him how to hit a little punch shot that initially was a push-slice. We worked on the club face angle (mainly by matching it up with the clubhead path. first push-fades, then finally just pushes. Next we just started to rotate everything to the left until the ball was on target. He had 3 polies over the course of 30 or so shots. I was disgusted!
Linear Mode
