This statement typifies a widespread and damaging misconception among TGM students. The hands are moving up and in at impact, and so also the right forearm is moving up and in at impact.
Im sorry,this makes absolutly no sense at all,I can see now why a lot of people shy away from the GM concept..........Im lost,will just look on this thread until its clear to me,what ever happened to down and out............
Im sorry,this makes absolutly no sense at all,I can see now why a lot of people shy away from the GM concept..........Im lost,will just look on this thread until its clear to me,what ever happened to down and out............
My opinion, right or wrong, is the "scientific" community is teaching swinging, and not only have no concept of hitting, but insist it doesn't exist. I don't know about you guys, but learning about hitting and right arm participation has been HUGE for me...
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I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
How can one wedge Roll without the other doing same ? Wouldnt you have to reform your grip to pull that off. Go from 90 degrees say to more than 90 in terms of the relationship of the two wedge planes.
Assuming a two Vertical , palms facing each other grip type : I see the Hands as Turning (or being turned by Pivot ) on the Backswing , Rolling on the Downswing , the wedges doing same. 90 (or whatever you set at Fix) staying fairly constant.
My opinion, right or wrong, is the "scientific" community is teaching swinging, and not only have no concept of hitting, but insist it doesn't exist. I don't know about you guys, but learning about hitting and right arm participation has been HUGE for me...
I dont know about the scientific community but yes , me too, learning to Hit has been huge for me too. Even though Im mainly Swinging these days. Without learning to hit , I never would have understood how much the THRUST continues down and out to Both ARms Straight ! The Thrust , not the hands continues down and out even while the clubhead and the hands start making their way In and Up. Very hard to get this concept while Swinging .
To my mind why guys say they swing but hit the heck out of it with the right side . Why Homer said the Right Side is always driving , Hitting or Swinging . Even with a passive throwout of the right side its still thrownout to Both Arms Straight . Save some right arm for the ball etc. You just dont have much of a game until you understand the right arm extension etc etc etc etc.
Could be a good place to start when re jigging your game. Right Arm extension (passive or active) though the ball and Right Forearm Flying Wedge structure.
How can one wedge Roll without the other doing same ? Wouldnt you have to reform your grip to pull that off. Go from 90 degrees say to more than 90 in terms of the relationship of the two wedge planes.
Assuming a two Vertical , palms facing each other grip type : I see the Hands as Turning (or being turned by Pivot ) on the Backswing , Rolling on the Downswing , the wedges doing same. 90 (or whatever you set at Fix) staying fairly constant.
YA-NO, I do understand what Daryl is saying. That (my understanding) is not good for his cedibility or reputation. I was hoping to stake out a piece of high ground to make a couple of points that U have heard from me before an never found convincing . But, c'est la vie, the sun will rise in the morning.
hb
Last edited by HungryBear : 11-28-2012 at 10:08 PM.
How can one wedge Roll without the other doing same ? Wouldnt you have to reform your grip to pull that off. Go from 90 degrees say to more than 90 in terms of the relationship of the two wedge planes.
Assuming a two Vertical , palms facing each other grip type : I see the Hands as Turning (or being turned by Pivot ) on the Backswing , Rolling on the Downswing , the wedges doing same. 90 (or whatever you set at Fix) staying fairly constant.
Well, I'm lost for words. "Say it ain't so, Joe"
Innercityteacher understands, OMG, we talked on the phone for 60 seconds and he understands, he was very surprised - never knew it could be - but he can now Hinge with the best of them.
There's no secret, it's all in the book. If all of us don't understand this "Basic Alignment", "Right Forearm Motion" and "90 degree Wedge Alignment" then communicating is very difficult. Understanding TGM - Possible, Applying TGM - not possible.
If you get a Bucket with Handle, 2 "Red Sticky Dots" and a Dowel Rod, Call me. I'll walk you through it, painlessly. Or, wait for the "Video".
Why is there confusion about whats going up-plane and whats going down-plane?
The Hands travel on a Path toward the ground until under the Left Shoulder (Hinge Location), then they travel away from the ground. ANY Ball Located behind Low-Point will be struck with a Down-Plane moving Clubhead. REALLY.
The Ball, should be struck while BOTH the Hands and Clubhead are moving Down-plane. Don't confuse Low-Point with being the Farthest Point the Clubhead travels from your Left Shoulder. With a Level Left Wrist at Impact the Left Wrist will continue to Un-cock. Low-Point is an Alignment and yes, normally the Alignment occurs at the Lowest Point of the Clubhead Orbit.
The Hands will reach their Closest point to the ground when they're below the Left Shoulder (related to the Ground) but Geometrically its Located when the Right Arm is Fully Straight (Full Extension). So, the Hands Travel Down-Plane until Full Extension regardless of their distance from the Ground. The Hands travel Down-Plane while the Right Elbow is Straightening and Up-Plane while the Left Arm is Folding. Don't confuse "Down-Plane" with the Ground you're standing on, that's "Golf Channel" stuff and stuff you find in golf books for public consumption and by Golf instructors trying to make a living (not all). The Clubhead, Ball and Hands don't know about the Ground and they don't care. They are ruled by Orbit and Low-Point.
Hmm?? A Chipping Stroke occurs when the Hands pass under the Left Shoulder and begin moving away from Low-Point (but Down-Plane) while the Ball, located behind Low-Point is struck with a Down-Plane moving Clubhead Toward Low-Point. The "Turf" is "Chipped" which is different than a "Divot". Why would anyone strike a ball with a Full Stroke while using a "Chipping" Alignment? Crazy perhaps???? Ya, Really. It's used for short Shots around the Green because the significant loss of compression allows you, the golfer, to use an accelerating clubhead without the Ball traveling its normal distance...........
Further explanation : When you narrow your stance and your feet are very close together, Low Point moves about 3-6 inches beyond the Left Shoulder (RFAA). A Ball Played opposite (in-line) the Left Shoulder (Hinge) will be Struck with a Down-Plane moving Clubhead because it's behind Low-Point. Hands leading the Clubhead by 3-6" will be traveling away from Low-Point while the Clubhead Travels Toward Low-Point = Chipping Stroke Pattern. Yet, Both Hands and Clubhead are moving Down-Plane.
Innercityteacher understands, OMG, we talked on the phone for 60 seconds and he understands, he was very surprised - never knew it could be - but he can now Hinge with the best of them.
There's no secret, it's all in the book. If all of us don't understand this "Basic Alignment", "Right Forearm Motion" and "90 degree Wedge Alignment" then communicating is very difficult. Understanding TGM - Possible, Applying TGM - not possible.
If you get a Bucket with Handle, 2 "Red Sticky Dots" and a Dowel Rod, Call me. I'll walk you through it, painlessly. Or, wait for the "Video".
...then anyone can get it!
Really Daryl, they need the bucket and the red dot. I had to go to the range and do lots of swings with the Base Line of the Plane marked with alignment sticks first with a bucket and Extensor Action and then with a club doing chips and then Acquired Motion where the Wheel Rim really jumped out and the Finish Swivel really was powerful. Another move that helped was leading my Axis Tilt with my left knee as I read about in Nick Faldo's "Winning Golf" many years ago and other books, and have observed in lots of videos of both Hogan and Sneed. That Axis Tilt allows the right forearm to drop in front of the right hip as the shoulder slides down. The inside of the forearms both point up as does the right wrist as the hands slide to Both Arms Straight. Straightening the right arm provides all the Extensor action needed and the slightest "flip of the hips" from the front knee allows me to strike a high draw if Swinging and a power fade if Hitting further than I have ever struck the ball before!
Ball position is varied by the width of stance so other shots can be played. The more I practice with keeping the bucket level through the RFT and Pivot, the more effortless the shots.
Since I do have an artificial hip and a shorter front leg, I do expect my Pivot to be a little less robust but that's why God made senior shafts, hot clubs, TGM and LBG!
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Because of your shorter front leg you should be playing below Par. But, from your post I can tell that you're twisting your legs and using that as your Backstroke Hip Turn (that's not in the Book). So, your knees are out of Alignment and Twisted all about and your only hope to shift your weight has been to use a stack and tilt type lateral move toward the Target to get your weight to move to drive (actually, it would Pull) your right shoulder. Why go through so much work? So much struggle?
Why not allow your Hips to turn and your weight to shift by bending your knees rather than Twisting them? That way, you can "LOAD" your Right Foot during the backstroke and turn your hips to initiate the Downswing using your right leg as a backstop (not launching pad) and your weight will shift at the appropriate time (about a millisecond before impact). See Ben Hogans book, "Five ways or something". Or, March in Place with your feet apart, knees bent and bend from the Hips. Then, your Hips will Turn, weight will shift, but your knees won't Twist. TGM.
It's unfair that you have a shorter left leg because it means that gravity will assist your weight shift and you'll be more powerful going through the Ball. You should give strokes to your competitors. When Obamacare finds out that it helps your game, they'll charge you more.
I'd feel bad if your Right leg was shorter.
Daryl's Helpful Tip: Load your Right Foot before you Load the #3 PP.
I had to go to the range and do lots of swings with the Base Line of the Plane marked with alignment sticks first with a bucket and Extensor Action and then with a club doing chips and then Acquired Motion where the Wheel Rim really jumped out and the Finish Swivel really was powerful. Another move that helped was leading my Axis Tilt with my left knee as I read about in Nick Faldo's "Winning Golf" many years ago and other books, and have observed in lots of videos of both Hogan and Sneed. That Axis Tilt allows the right forearm to drop in front of the right hip as the shoulder slides down. The inside of the forearms both point up as does the right wrist as the hands slide to Both Arms Straight. Straightening the right arm provides all the Extensor action needed and the slightest "flip of the hips" from the front knee allows me to strike a high draw if Swinging and a power fade if Hitting further than I have ever struck the ball before! 
(that's not in the Book). So, your knees are out of Alignment and Twisted all about and your only hope to shift your weight has been to use a stack and tilt type lateral move toward the Target to get your weight to move to drive (actually, it would Pull) your right shoulder. Why go through so much work? So much struggle? 
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