I hit a lot of good shots with that technique but I have to really learn my Aim Points so I can know where to thrust. I really have to find a spot and a stance to drive down to the ball!
ICT
Below is a very helpful discussion of the circle geometry which relates to Aim Point it seems!
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2-K Endless Belt Effect
Originally Posted by 6bee1dee
With all due respect I don't see the baggage carousal example as a valid description since no speed is increase by just going in a circular oval path. I spent the last two weeks in more airports staring for my luggage (always last) and see no increase in speed as fake Gucci luggage go around in circles. The same if a club is attached I suspect.
Consider two runners in a race run on a multi-lane oval track, one in the innermost lane and the other in the outermost lane. If started from the same line, the outside runner must cover a greater distance (because of the increased arc at each end of the oval) to complete each lap. To equalize the two distances, the exterior runner would be started further 'ahead' of the interior runner .
Similarly, on the oval carousel, if a 'club' were extended from the belt, it would have to travel a further distance than the belt itself in order to comply with the increased length of each end of the oval. Unlike the outside track runner, however, the club would have no 'headstart.' Hence, it would have to travel faster (surface speed) to maintain its in line relationship with the belt (RPM).
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#2
04-27-2006, 07:10 AM
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2-K Endless Belt Effect GM#152
Originally Posted by mb
So if I understand correctly the endless belt describes the perfect lag action of a swinger???
The Endless Belt Effect (2-K) describes the increase in Clubhead Surface Speed with no increase in Hand Speed (Belt Speed) during Release. The Effect is the same for both Hitters and Swingers and is exaggerated with a Snap Release (10-24-D/E) and a Line Delivery Path (10-23-A/B/C/D) and minimized with a Sweep Release (10-24-A/B/C) and a Circle Path (10-23-E).
Knowing that this Effect is in operation will keep the player from attempting to 'speed up' the Hands during Release, an ill-advised and almost always ill-fated attempt to increase Clubhead Speed through Impact. Per 6-P-0, it is only necessary to keep the Handspeed 'strong, consistent and Rhythmic.' In other words, Sustain the Lag!
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#3
04-27-2006, 07:11 AM
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2-K Endless Belt Effect GM#153
Originally Posted by golfingrandy
Also note the photo on page 34, the belt has little golf clubs attached to it. In this example, the belt speed or surface speed does not change.
The Belt Speed (Hand RPM) does not increase. The Surface Speed of the Clubhead does increase (at the pulley wheel encounter).
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#4
04-27-2006, 09:05 AM
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Golfing Machine Confusion GM#223
Originally Posted by femoore
Please discuss the relationship between Overtaking Rate and "Endless Belt Effect."
The Overtaking (of the Left Hand by the Right and the Hands by the Clubhead) begins at the Pulley Wheel Encounter. If the Pulley Wheel is Large, the Overtaking, i.e., the Release, begins early. If it is small, the Overtaking begins later.
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#5
04-28-2006, 08:52 PM
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Angle of the Endless Belt? BM#212
Originally Posted by EdZ
Originally Posted by njmp2
I know there is nothing you can teach me about physics, geometry, or the golf
swing. Come down off the horse.
What is the ideal angle of the endless belt with the ground?
The 'Endless Belt' is the Hands executing their On Plane Straight Line
Delivery Path (10-23-A). Therefore, the ideal Angle -- in fact, the only
angle -- of the Endless Belt is the Plane Angle. And because of its Zero
Shift, that Plane Angle would ideally be the Turned Shoulder Plane Angle
(10-6-B). That Turned Shoulder Plane's absolute degree of angle from the
horizontal will vary from Player to Player and from Club to Club. Hence, the
absolute angle of the Endless Belt will also vary.
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#6
04-28-2006, 08:53 PM
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Go get me my Belt! BM#213
Originally Posted by EdZ
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by EdZ
Originally Posted by njmp2
I know there is nothing you can teach me about physics, geometry, or the golf
swing. Come down off the horse.
What is the ideal angle of the endless belt with the ground?
The 'Endless Belt' is the Hands executing their On Plane Straight Line Delivery
Path (10-23-A). Therefore, the ideal Angle -- in fact, the only angle
-- of the Endless Belt is the Plane Angle. And because of its Zero Shift,
that Plane Angle would ideally be the Turned Shoulder Plane Angle (10-6-B).
That Turned Shoulder Plane's absolute degree of angle from the horizontal
will vary from Player to Player and from Club to Club. Hence, the absolute
angle of the Endless Belt will also vary.
If impact/impact fix hand location were constant (relative to the torso -
lead arm vs shoulder line angle) and ball position were adjusted to account
for club length why would the angle of approach/aiming point change? Wouldn't
the aiming point remain constant in this case, hence the hands move in the
same relative angle of attack (vs the ground and on plane, of course the
'plane' adjusts). In that case the angle of attack would be constant and
hence the release point, and aim point, and axis tilt amount would be as
well. The only thing that would change would be the plane angle and
ball position.
[Bold by Yoda/Yoda.]
The Hands are the Endless Belt. Their Delivery Path is always On
Plane. Therefore, when that Plane Angle changes, the angle of the Delivery
Path also changes. This is axiomatic.
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#7
04-28-2006, 08:55 PM
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Belt Attack BM#214
Originally Posted by EdZ
Yes, agreed, perhaps I'm not stating the question properly - given that it is
on plane - and that we are driving DOWN plane - is it a 'directly down' (90
degrees - down in front of right foot) vs 'directly forward' (straight at the
target) vs. somewhere in between - halfway being a 45 degree angle with the
ground.
If you were going to put a shaft in the ground on the angle of the endless
belt, from top hand position to aiming point, and that shaft was your
angle/arc of approach what angle what the shaft make with the ground given a
fixed impact hand location, ball position adjusted for club length, and
constant angle between the upper left arm and shoulder line/axis tilt at
impact.
What is the ON PLANE angle of approach that the hands make in such a case?
Your question seems to refer to the Angle of Attack (the Downward
Dimension of the Three Dimensional Impact per 2-C-0 and 2-C-1 #2B). However,
the term you have used is the Angle of Approach (the Forward
Dimension per 2-C-0 and 2-C-1 #3). Please confirm you mean Attack Angle or
else reiterate Approach Angle.
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Quote:
#8
04-28-2006, 09:02 PM
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Endless Belt BM#217
Originally Posted by EdZ
Originally Posted by Yoda
Originally Posted by EdZ
Yes, agreed, perhaps I'm not stating the question properly - given that it is
on plane - and that we are driving DOWN plane - is it a 'directly down' (90
degrees - down in front of right foot) vs 'directly forward' (straight at the
target) vs. somewhere in between - halfway being a 45 degree angle with the
ground.
If you were going to put a shaft in the ground on the angle of the endless
belt, from top hand position to aiming point, and that shaft was your
angle/arc of approach what angle what the shaft make with the ground given a
fixed impact hand location, ball position adjusted for club length, and
constant angle between the upper left arm and shoulder line/axis tilt at
impact.
What is the ON PLANE angle of approach that the hands make in such a case?
Your question seems to refer to the Angle of Attack (the Downward
Dimension of the Three Dimensional Impact per 2-C-0 and 2-C-1 #2B). However,
the term you have used is the Angle of Approach (the Forward
Dimension per 2-C-0 and 2-C-1 #3). Please confirm you mean Attack Angle or
else reiterate Approach Angle.
Yes, my appologies for not knowing all the proper lingo.
The downward angle of attack, although I would also be curious to know the outward
angle 'feel' as well, how far 'out to the right' it feels and at what point
'downward' would be considered ideal under the limits I posed.
Thanks Lynn
- EZ
[Bold above by Yoda/Yoda.]
I thought so. Therefore, since my original reply to your question ("What
is the ideal angle of the Endless Belt?") assumed you were referring to
its Angle of Attack, a.k.a. the Delivery Path Attack Angle, it still stands:
"The 'Endless Belt' is the Hands executing their On Plane Straight Line
Delivery Path (10-23-A). Therefore, the ideal Angle -- in fact, the only
angle -- of the Endless Belt is the Plane Angle. And because of its
Zero Shift, that Plane Angle is ideally the Turned Shoulder Plane Angle
(10-6-B). That Turned Shoulder Plane's absolute degree of angle from the
horizontal will vary from Player to Player and from Club to Club. Hence, the
absolute angle of the Endless Belt will also vary."
In other words, Plane Angle determines the Angle of Attack. As the 'ideal'
Plane Angle steepens (as it must from Long Clubs to Short), so does the ideal
Angle of Attack, and so does the ideal Angle of the On Plane Endless Belt.
Your follow-up question above asked that I address the Angle of Approach
("Outward Feel") as well and imposed three contraints:
1. Constant Left Shoulder to Ball angle;
2. Constant Impact Hands Location;
3. Ball Position adjusted for Clubshaft Length.
Unfortunately, Constraints #1 and #2 are incompatible with #3. That is
because Constraint #3 necessitates a variable Ball Location, and this
always produces a change in Contraints #1 and #2. The further Back the Ball
is played, the greater is the separation between the Low Point and Impact
Point Plane Lines. And the further forward the Ball is played, vice versa.
Therefore, as the Ball is moved back toward the Right Foot, this necessarily
produces a greater Clubshaft Forward Lean (and corresponding changes in the
Left Shoulder to Ball Angle and Impact Fix Hand Location) in order to comply
with the In-Line alignments of the Left Arm Flying Wedge (6-B-3-0-1).
So, in answer to your question, the "Outward Feel" will vary with Ball
Location (because that determines the Angle of Approach). The
further back the Ball is played, the more inside-out is the Endless Belt
Approach Angle (Delivery Path Approach Angle). The "Downward Feel"
will also vary (because the Plane Angle determines the Angle of Attack).
As the Plane Angle steepens, the more Downward is the Endless Belt Attack
Angle (Delivery Path Attack Angle). Study 2-N-0 and 7-23.
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Quote:
#9
04-28-2006, 09:03 PM
Yoda
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More on the Belt BM#218 I might add to all this that, in
terms of Feel, the Turned Shoulder Plane 'Feels' the same for all full
Strokes. That is because the Hands are always in the Plane of the Turned
Right Shoulder at The Top. This fact results in a very desirable
'sameness' in Feel, even though the steeper the Plane Angle, the shorter the
Shoulder Turn
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So, I have put the emphasis on things I will work on like TSP and Aim Point in bold blue and end my experiment with Steve Stricker's swing style.
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Last edited by innercityteacher : 12-18-2012 at 02:23 PM.
Let's examine the right and left hand/arm contribution. I read a article a while back where a golfer did some one armed swinging. As I recall- the golfer had a 2 handed swin speed of about 100 mph, a left arm only swing speed of about 86 mph and a right arm only swing speed of about 90 mph. off-hand, it would show that swinging or hitting-we can argue later which it is- the second hand is a major contributor.
Using the numbers I remember - if swinging the left alone , 86 mph, contributed about 75% to a 2 handed 100mph swing -therefore the right would be the only be the only possible power source for the remaining 25% and if the right arm alone can produce 90 mph would be about 81% and the left must produce 19% of the power to reach 100 mph 2 handed.
I give U the answer now I leave the mechanics of the solution as an exercise for U.
HB
Last edited by HungryBear : 12-18-2012 at 11:43 PM.
Aiming The Push Basic Stroke
Originally Posted by Sbark
Is it advised to look directly at the ball on the "push" shot , chipping and pitching or does one stay with the aim point ahead of the ball with the short club..........
The primary use of the Aiming Point concept is to control Automatic Releases, both Sweep and Snap. For the Short Shots, I personally use the alternative Impact Hand Location procedure and look at the Ball. When using the Push Basic Stroke, I am very aware of Pushing the Right Forearm through Impact directly toward the Plane Line along the line the Forearm is positioned.
Simple.
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I get it Kev. Level wrists, regardless of which plane is selected are terrific. Thanks!
Daryl's article is sort of reading my mind. I am so into the pressure point thrust now, that everything else serves to simply get and keep the lag!
When Covering the Line as a hitter, do I use the Aim Point of the left thumb/right heel PP # 1 which I am driving do I use the Aim Point of PP # 3?
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I get it Kev. Level wrists, regardless of which plane is selected are terrific. Thanks!
Daryl's article is sort of reading my mind. I am so into the pressure point thrust now, that everything else serves to simply get and keep the lag!
When Covering the Line as a hitter, do I use the Aim Point of the left thumb/right heel PP # 1 which I am driving do I use the Aim Point of PP # 3?
ICT
...Various aim points...drive off the inside of the right leg and throw or drive the # 3 PP and SNAP even with a 42 degree golf ball or colder. PW-130 yards of carry, 9 iron 145 yards of carry and the # 3 hybrid bounced at about 190 with the driver carrying to almost 250 with either layback or Horizontal Hinge.
Throwing or thrusting at the Aim Point means my club head is accelerating at impact faster than ever before! My hybrids and 3 wood are stiff shafted graphite and the shot dispersion was well controlled. My irons are regular steel and well-controlled. I had to use the angle hinge with the senior shafted drivers or I would have no idea of where the drive would go but with the Angle Hinge the soft shaft was amazing.
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 12-21-2012 at 11:46 PM.
Shifting belly button to left to Swing and Drag the Lag
Originally Posted by innercityteacher
...Various aim points...drive off the inside of the right leg and throw or drive the # 3 PP and SNAP even with a 42 degree golf ball or colder. PW-130 yards of carry, 9 iron 145 yards of carry and the # 3 hybrid bounced at about 190 with the driver carrying to almost 250 with either layback or Horizontal Hinge.
Throwing or thrusting at the Aim Point means my club head is accelerating at impact faster than ever before! My hybrids and 3 wood are stiff shafted graphite and the shot dispersion was well controlled. My irons are regular steel and well-controlled. I had to use the angle hinge with the senior shafted drivers or I would have no idea of where the drive would go but with the Angle Hinge the soft shaft was amazing.
ICT
Paying careful attention to right foot/left foot/right foot set-up and stance width tonight in 37 degree temp. Impact Fix on the drag lag spot right forearm on plane. Tracing back/stepping back to inside of right foot and shifting the belly button left. Thrust/lag drag in front of short irons-110 yard 52 degree wedge, 130 yard pw, 141 + yard 9 iron all straight with narrow stance and very high/soft landing, drag lag of middle irons and hybrids to back of ball- 6 iron 170 yards plus carry 3 hybrid 180 yards 2 hybrid inch in front of ball for almost 200 yards carry (have to retrain my stance to get wider!) and the driver, choked down an inch, teed low floats very high past 230. Drive works best with feeling of dragging the lag to the middle of my stance. Have to keep my hands back and let the weight shift throw the club head at the Base line of the plane.
ICT
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